(no subject)

[hkellick]

Funny thing about Honesty.
It's a two edged sword.
Everyone likes it. They want people to be honest. After all, how can you trust someone who isn't honest with you.
But no one wants that honesty pointed at them.
If you're honest about yourself.. really honest about yourself... you're brave.
If you're honest about others... really honest... well let's call it like it is.. brutally honest.
Intersting set of words... Brutally Honest.
Honesty.. and Brutal.
Honesty... Cruel, Cold-Blooded, Harsh, Severe.

If you're really honest about others, you're an asshole.

We have a whole near-science involved in being less than truthful.
Tact.
Tact generally includes the ability to use selective truths or, sometimes, hardly the truth at all.
No, of course not dear. That dress doesn't make your ass look fat.
No, the haircut looks good on you.
Let's not even get into Political Correctness...

Little White Lies.
It always amuses me when you explain to a child (a child, mind you, who is infinitely smarter than any adult I've ever known, including near-adults like myself) how lying is wrong, but little white lies are okay.
Have we ever considered that? What are you really telling that child?
Lying is wrong.. sometimes?

Sometimes I think we'd all be better off if we all stop being hypersensitive and just accepted the truth.
Yes, that dress DOES make you look fat.
Yes, that haircut DOES Make you look stupid.
Yes, you ARE an asshole.
No, it's NOT okay. That really offended me.
No, that's NOT an intelligent or well-thought opinion.

The fact is that we don't want to know the truths about ourselves. We don't want to think or discuss the other part of us.. the part that isn't the best us. Which isn't to say it isn't there. Every single one of us has it. Some of us tend to show it a little more than others *coughwhistle* But we all have it.
We all WANT to be the Protagonist, doing the best we can in a cruel world, the good guy in our own life stories.
The other side of this coin is... chances are you're the Antagonist in someone else's life story, adding to the cruelties the next man must suffer.
But that's not a fact we want to admit up to.

Anyways... I think I've driven this point home enough for myself.

Comments

[phoenixsong]

*hug* I've been on the wrong side of lies and other associated games too many times. At this point, I'd rather have the truth. Even if it hurts, it will cause me far less damage than finding out long after the fact that what I was told at a particular point was a lie. The latter will cause me to second-guess everything else I've ever been told by that person -- and to mistrust them for a good bit of time afterwards.

"Truth" and "trust" are just that intertwined for me. As I believe they should be.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I'm much like that too.
Tact is not natural for me. I'm blunt and generally "brutally" honest.
By and large, I think it works for me.
If I like you, you know it.
If I don't like you, well you know it then too.
No lies. No deceptions. Just... there it is.

[dawnstar.livejournal.com]

If I like you, you know it.
If I don't like you, well you know it then too.

I dunno... I used to have trouble telling whether or not you liked me. But then again, you and I have a strange relationship, anyway. :)

I am more and more convinced, though ... the two of you (that being lite and ecwoodburn) need to meet in person.

[phoenixsong]

*nodgrin* So wish our only contact wasn't through LJ. s:)

[dawnstar.livejournal.com]

*ponders introducing you to the world of MUSHing*

[phoenixsong]

Sweetheart, remember that cheshire23 and I met on a BBS. After I'd spent at least a year doing talkers. *g*

[lite.livejournal.com]

Let me tell you about a little place called ChaoticMUX ;)

[phoenixsong]

Either you or dawnstar -- just get me the IP or DNS name, I should be able to take care of the rest. *eg*

Meantime, are you ever actually on Y!M? Or is that info outdated?

[lite.livejournal.com]

I'm not actually on YIM much anymore.
I do OCCASIONALLY use AIM and could be coerced into meeting someone at a semi-regular time.
Or perhaps I'lll just catch you on ChaoticMUX at a later date.

[phoenixsong]

dawnstar and kareila got me set up -- I'm SamMulder. Hee s:)

[dustkitten.livejournal.com]

There's yet to be a time that I've needed to lie to Tash or tell her to lie. There have been times--especially now, with wedding plans in zygote stage--that I've said, "Don't say this to people--we'll tell everyone when we're ready."

Hell, when she asked if I was the Tooth Fairy, I said, "Sure."

Fortunately for the sake of her childhood, she didn't believe me. :)

I actually just wrote something for my upcoming web page revamp about honesty, and why I choose it even when the rest of the world is sympathetic.

Will give you the URL when it's up.

I've yet to call out of work still. I've yet to make shit up when I'm late. Fortunately for me, I don't live a mile from the store like the rest of them, and they make certain allowances for me, although they shouldn't. I'm just a bad procrastinator.

I'm also really sick and weak, so I'm cutting this short. You made a lot of good points in your post, but I believe there's a place in this world for a gray area. Is it a spinning of phrase to say, "That's not a flattering dress" rather to say "Yes, it makes you look fat?" Sure, but it's no less honest. In that situation, using that situation as our example, if a relationship is a solid one, and you know yourself as well as you know the other person, you'll know the intent of the words as they're said. If you're so insecure that you're asking it for the wrong reasons..no response will satisfy you, because you'll never be satisfied because you're not secure. Ya know?

This boils down to perception, and being self-aware. We should be working on that, in each of us, more than we should be caring about how to turn our words to please others (or whether we should have to in the first place).

Lucky you and I are in really good places when it comes to that. Not everyone is.

My question is..do we bother to guide them there?

-A-

[lite.livejournal.com]

I agree with the idea that tact CAN be "That's not a flattering dress" or "I really liked that haircut you had before".
Really, it comes down to the people involved. Some people can say things so that it remains the truth without upsetting sensitive people. For others, tact is just saying "No, of course not."

Really, it's difficult to discuss this sort of matter without example. There is no general rule that applies to any and all situations.
Maybe, as you mention, party A is insecure or depressed. Maybe Party B just has a tendency to smooth things over without thinking about it.
Most appropriately, maybe Party A and Party B themselves don't really know the truth. Just their own perception of it.

I'm not sure we CAN guide others towards self-awareness, except by example.
From experience, you can't force people to change. You can poke, discuss, question, suggest, demand, annoy, taunt.. but that won't necessarily force the party in question to take a good look. Generally, it just makes you an annoyance or an asshole.

n..n

[soreth.livejournal.com]

o/~ Now I'm telling the truth, I'm finished with lies o/~

Re: n..n

[lite.livejournal.com]

There on Fibber Island? ;)

Re: n..n

[soreth.livejournal.com]

Here on Fibber Island the bushes are made of trout!