Gas Prices

[hkellick]

So.. a question (and another public entry!)

They're predicting gas prices to go up to $5 again for a while.

How much do you have to pay to fill up your vehicle before the price of gas outweighs the convenience of having your own vehicle? How much until you switch to biking/walking/mass transport?

If gas does go up to $5 or more per gallon, what do you intend to do?

Comments

[verticalface.livejournal.com]

If gas goes up to five dollars a gallon..

Sorry, they can shove it up their sweet little asses.

[lite.livejournal.com]

So if gas went up to and stayed at $5 (or higher), you would stop using your jeep?

[verticalface.livejournal.com]

I'd probably do what Keith did: convert it into a car that runs off of french fry grease.

[kareila]

If I were still in Boston, I'd be all about the public transit, but it's not really an option here. People are carpooling like crazy, though.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I'm glad we have a decent mass transportation and I am happy to take full use of it. I still use gas going to and from the Metro Station, but not half as much as I would use to drive here.

[zaph.livejournal.com]

We do? Metro is the worst mass transportation system I've ever encountered. It's only useful if you're going from outside the city to inside the city or vice versa. If you want to go from one part of the city to another or one suburb to another, it's beyond useless.

It's also expensive enough that for any commute less than about half a gallon round trip, it still won't worth it, even with gas prices at $5/gallon. In most cars, that's at least 10-12 miles, which I'm sure covers quite a lot of the commuters in the area. Round trip metro fare for that would be $2.70 minimum, and probably $3.70 minimum if you're crossing the beltway.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I couldn't disagree more. Maybe it's about background, as I was born and raised in Buffalo, with a patehtic "subway/train" and a number of busses, but the Metro area is huge and all encompassing.
If you are talking about JUST using Metro Subways, than, yes, there are drawbacks, but once you include the sheer NUMBER of Busses (not just Metro Busses, but LEX and DASH and the Fairfax Connector et. al), I think you could get from almost any point in the Metro area to any other.
Yes, the Metro lines are expensive. But as someone who lives in Landover and works in Alexandria (and whose girlfriend lives in Landover and works next to the White House), I find it a whole lot better than any I'm actually used to using for long periods of time. And it's still better to hop onto the Metro and take an hour long commute, reading a book or working on Sudoku puzzles than hopping in my car and getting stuck in Beltway traffic. At least for me.

Our of curiosity, what other transportation systems have you used? Why do you think Metro is the worst?

[zaph.livejournal.com]

I've ridden the subway in New York, which, at the very least, is more efficient, even if its map is lacking in some areas. But it's quick, even if you do have to make a couple of transfers. I think a lot of that might have to do with the city's layout - you can go north and south very quickly, and then cut across. But there's no reason they couldn't have done something similar here.

Boston's system is reasonably good. It goes pretty much everywhere and, like New York's, is actually efficient. It does suffer from the suburb problem, though. But I don't remember it taking particularly long to get anywhere on it.

The El trains in Chicago are reasonably good, although it seems to have kind of the same problem ours does if you live outside the city itself. But since the city itself is arranged pretty much in a line (being next to a giant lake will do that) it's very easy to get around inside the city.

I have vague memories of the Paris Metro (which I believe ours is vaguely based on) and the London Underground from the few times I rode each on a trip about ten years ago, but I seem to remember there weren't many places you couldn't go on them, and I don't recall ever having to take a terribly indirect route. And London specifically has the Circle Line to prevent that sort of problem.

But here, rather than make things organised or efficient, they make the stations look nice. They pay Metro police to arrest people for eating. They have short trains that run way too infrequently, and the notification system, when it's up, is rarely accurate. The escalators and elevators are constantly broken, because some genius decided that outdoor, unprotected escalators were a good idea.

The farecard system and variable fares are inconvenient - on all the other systems I mentioned, you can use the same payment method to get several people on, because you don't have to record where you entered and exited.

I can't think of a single thing Metro has ever done right.

[phoenixsong]

You're forgetting paying for parking in DC, though. Which is curbside robbery.

Here's how my costs break down on Metro, assuming I am not carpooling:
$2.65-2.70 each direction, depending on where I get off (since I'm trying to walk more anyway)
$3.50/day parking
Get to the station by 7:15am, get to work around 7:50, give or take a few minutes.
Leave work between 5 and 5:15pm, get home around 6pm
Total cost: Under $50/week, and we'll call it approx. 45 minutes of low-stress commute each way. Even if I do a couple hours of errands one day during the weekend, a tank of gas can last me up to two weeks.

Here's what it would cost me to drive every day:
$13/day for the nearest parking garage, or trying to find enough change to park at a meter and not get ticketed.
No idea how long the drive would be, because that would depend on traffic, but I hate city driving, so either way it'd be much more stressful.
And I'd definitely be going through gas faster, between the longer drive and the possibility of getting caught in traffic and burning gas going nowhere.
Let's say a tank of gas lasts me a week; current price for gas nearest me is 2.89 as of this morning. So, $29/week if I push that tank as far as I dare
Total costs: $94/week, and a lot more stress.

I'll never claim Metro is perfect -- I wish they ran trains more frequently on weekends, for example. But since most of my travel time is commuting anyway, it's a lot better both in terms of financial and emotional/stress costs than driving. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

I wish they ran trains later at night. Especially on weekends.

[phoenixsong]

Friday and Saturday they run to 3am the following day. It's the waiting 15 or more minutes for the right train, especially in a dual-line station, that gets to me.

That's the point where driving makes more sense, on weekends.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

A number of times I've realized I'd be coming home later than the last transfer I could make, so I drove to places I could easily Metro to if the trains ran later.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

I currently take public transit to work. I walk for most of my errands. I always check flight and rail prices before taking a trip. I still use my car for trips that are logistically difficult using mass transit (whether it's to the hardware store to buy lumber or to my mother's house to visit). And I carpool when I'm going somewhere other people I know are going.

Given all that, I don't think the way I use my car will change if gas prices hit $5 or even $10 a gallon. I may choose to take fewer trips to visit my family, but I doubt it, as I don't visit them very often anyway.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

If my insurance and parking prices skyrocket, I'm more likely to ditch the car than for skyrocketing gas prices.

[lainiest.livejournal.com]

Well, since I don't have to pay for gas... ~o~
But seriously, this is part of the reason why I intend to never own a car. I have legs, and once I move out of Olean I'll be going to a city with mass transit, which is cheaper than owning a car even with reasonable gas prices anyway.
I laugh at society's dependence on automobiles! C_C

[lite.livejournal.com]

I suspect that if I were working and living in Buffalo, I'd be forced to drive a car because Buffalo doesn't have a wonderful mass transportation.

Hell, if I still worked in Beltsville (PBS&J), there's almost NO Mass Transport out there (Unless I wanted to figure out how to get to the MARC station :p )

I suggest that only big cities have a GOOD Mass Transportation system and other smaller cities have something ranging from god awful to... OK.

[lainiest.livejournal.com]

I'm told (by the person I'm moving in with who lives there) that Bellingham has a decent PTS. But they could be lying. :o
Really it just depends on the city rather than the size, I think. Big cities could just as easily have crappy systems.

[phoenixsong]

But larger cities are probably going to have funding for more than buses. There aren't many cities that have any sort of mass transit rail systems, regardless of quality (which is somewhat subjective anyway), and to my knowledge those cities are all big-name cities: NYC, DC, Boston, maybe SF?, London, Paris...

And no, I don't count Buffalo's toy train as mass-transit rail s:) (OK, maybe on a technicality, but for most places, one line does not a mass-transit system make, any more than one bus route.)

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

SF, Chicago, and Philadelphia have local rail.

So does Baltimore, though I don't know how useful that is because I've never used it.

Dallas and Houston don't. Don't know about LA or Minneapolis/St. Paul or Nashville, but I should because I know people in all 3 of those.

[angiepenguin.livejournal.com]

Heh, Phoenix is building a light rail line. Goes from downtown Phoenix to ASU and back, I think. Maybe it'll go to one or two of the popular malls around here, too. Oh, and it'll stop by the airport (which is between downtown Phoenix and ASU). It won't be finished for another two years or more, though. I also think that Phoenix is pretty ill-suited for light rail, anyway.

Our bus sytems aren't too bad, though. The fare is pretty damn cheap, especially compared to what it apparently is in the DC area. There are occasional bus breakdowns in the summer due to overheating, but otherwise it's pretty reliable. They even have a thing on their website (http://www.valleymetro.org) that will tell you the fastest route between two points. Sometimes it needs a little tweaking of the inputs, but for the most part, it's pretty good. The actual time it takes to go somewhere is at best 1.5x what it would be in a car, though sometimes it's 3x as long. Except at ASU, where I actually save time by riding the bus because I don't have to hunt for a parking spot then walk 3/4 of a mile.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

It also depends on what you personally consider acceptable. I got around Ithaca for years with public transit and my feet. But there really wasn't anywhere I couldn't go by walking, and I usually had time to walk or I didn't have time to go at all.

In Austin, I chose my housing based on what bus lines were nearby. And biked a lot at some of the places I lived.

Neither of these places have GOOD mass transit, but they both had mass transit good enough for me.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I think the trick to Mass Transport is that it has to make more sense to use than driving. If it's cheaper, and easier to drive from one point to another and is at least as "Sane", than the Mass Transportation is not up to snuff.
I'm talking day to day, by the way, not into the City for a big event. Though, there's that as well.. if it, for example, made more sense for me to drive to RFK stadium to see the Nationals (and they aren't far away) why is it worth it for me to take the Metro?

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

I agree. And I further state that by chooses one's housing and its location carefully, one can get along fine using mass transit.

What makes Austin's mass transit system bad is that there is a LOT of "you can't get there from here" about it. Ithaca has very infrequent buses so you need to have the schedule memorized or in your bag to not wait in the snow for half an hour for the next bus. And both systems have very limited numbers of buses running after 9pm.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I don't recall Buffalo having a great bus schedule. The NFTA train was better, but not half as good as the Metro system.

I love Mass Transportation, especially in big cities, both on an intellectual level (I dunno why, but the process of creating a city from very small town to metropolis is fascinating. Possibly too much SimCity.)

Unfortunately, small cities seem to be rotting from inside (all cities are, it seems, with the money flying into the suburb, but it's especially obvious with smaller, poorer cities.)

[lwoodbloo.livejournal.com]

I'd carpool.

I've been thinking, quite a bit, about my next car. I love my big ol' sedan, but this city boy's gonna buy a mini.

Public transport makes my life easy. But if that's going to happen...I'm filling up tonight because gas is less than $3 by me right now.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I am as well. I KNOW I'll be burning gas next weekend (moving) so not going broke doing so would be good.

I've been thinking alot about cars as well. I'm a big guy, so need a sedan, just so I have enough room to drive comfortably in, but I think I'll end up getting a hybrid. And I think, while I like the pickup of 6 cylinders, I'll stick with 4.

[lwoodbloo.livejournal.com]

Mmm, totally.

The mini has really good legroom, my friend bruce at 6'5" fit comfortable in one. Just an FYI!

Are you on IM ever? my ims are on LJ info, drop me a line sometime.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

My 6'4" 280 lb ex-bf was comfortable driving my Civic hatchback. Much more comfortable than in his Saturn sedan or my Subaru station wagon.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I don't fit comfortably in Kristen's Saturn SL-2. Not for long periods of time.
It probably depeneds on the car.

[dawnstar.livejournal.com]

It must. Oliver was able to ride in our Mazda 323 and drive it comfortably. He looked funny doing so, but it was possible. :)

[lite.livejournal.com]

Umm... not really on AIM. :) When I have free time lately (not a wholt lot), I've been buried in Sims 2: Nightlife :)

I have email, though :) lite at livejournal dot com works bootifully :)

[dawnstar.livejournal.com]

I'll suck it up and deal, probably. What else can I do? My work is not on any bus line. The closest bus stop is a good 6-7 miles away, and with my asthma I can't count on being able to make that walk every day. I'll also be increasingly thankful we got rid of the Jeep.

[lite.livejournal.com]

I suppose it could be another reason to consider changing jobs to something more convenient.

[dawnstar.livejournal.com]

You make a good point.

[blackfelicula.livejournal.com]

I've still been cutting down usage somewhat from last price hike. It's not practical for John to bus to work, but I could catch busses to and from MCC if need be.

[angiepenguin.livejournal.com]

Heh. My car broke down shortly before the gas price spike, and it's been running maybe once since then? I've been taking the city bus to school and work and back for 2-3 weeks now.

With the price of gas these days, the cost of possible repairs for my car, and the fact that ASU gives a free bus card to its students, I'm thinking I'll probably keep riding the bus through the end of the semester, if not longer. And if I get a ride to certain bus stops (1.5-3 miles away, depending on which stop), it actually saves me time vs. parking at ASU and walking 3/4 of a mile from the parking lot. And I'm a lot more likely to be on time for class when I take the bus.

If gas goes back down to $2.75 or below (that's about what it was when my car broke down) or if I get to a point where I'm working more hours (and I will be during winter break), I might use my car again.

[angiepenguin.livejournal.com]

... and if it ends up staying around $4-5/gallon, I'll look more seriously at biodiesel. I've been looking at it here and there for the past year or two, but more as a curiousity than as something I might actually do.

[hbbtrbbtbcnbt.livejournal.com]

It sucks. We have cut way back on little trips...if we run out of milk, we run out of milk. I've been more aware of this when I do shopping...we get 4 gallons of milk at a time, and that extra loaf of bread. We've gone to more pasta meals, cheap meals, trying to cut some spending there. Unfortunately, there's only one RTS route out of Victor, and it's not at all workable for Matt to go to work. Moving closer would kill us in rent, 'cause Penfield is freakin expensive. Thankfully, I just got a job, but if gas goes up that much, that's all my job will cover.