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hkellickSo, it's back. The big "should christmas be celebrated at school" debate.
Well, no, it never really went away, but it's back in the limelight again.
I definately have a position about this, and I'll get to that, but first a little bit of personal history.
My senior year of high school, my school district, Williamsville School District did the unthinkable: they banned overtly religious songs and displays from their schools. This was unheard of, unthinable! Well, not really, but as a Senior, that's a great deal of what I heard.
The problem was this.. and this is true, I suspect, of all these suburban school districts that this argument is happening in.. as far as anyone could see, the district was predominantly christian (false - it turns out the neighborhood had a really pretty good mix of christians (all denominations), jews, muslims and.. other (I had no understanding of the other, but trust me, they were there.)
The issue at stake wasn't about songs like Frosty the Snowman, but about "Silent Night" and "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen". There was a growing majority of the district population who did not feel that these overtly religious songs belonged in a public school setting.
A referendum occured (at the time, I did not want to go, my mom dragged me. But 11 years later, I'm glad I was there.). I remember it fairly clearly, actually. My mom, Marc and I went to North. As we stepped in, we passed a bunch of Born Agains singing Christmas Carols.. and one loonie old woman going on and on about how the jews were trying to take away their heritage. We went inside the auditorium and all concerned citizens were allowed to speak their minds. There was a little of both: both people who felt that these songs were harmless, part of American heritage and should be left alone.. and those who felt it was specifically not.
Anyways, a vote passed and overtly christian songs were banned. Gone.
Instantly, the entire school district was a mockery. We were the PC school district.
An interesting note.. at the time all of this was going on, yours truly was collecting CDs from a local radio station: 97 Rock. By and large, the CDs were bad (I loved them anyways) parodies of rock songs about.. The Buffalo Bills. (Yellow Submarine turned into the Yellow Steelers Team and, my favorite right now, Dude Looks Like a Lady turned into Drew (yes, Bledsoe) throws like a lady.) Anyways, the year this happened (and a whole slew of other big item tickets in Buffalo THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SNOW) happened, 97 Rock turned out a CD about Buffalo. I still have and enjoy this CD. (Especially songs like "Erie County Fair" and "Peace Bridge" and "Cheektowaga Polka" (I'll hook you two up,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
blackfelicula and ecwoodburn. You would appreciate!) And, of course.. the Williamsville School District's CHristmas Carols.. like We Wish You a Memorable Seasonal Tidings.
At the time, I was both angry that we kids had been put into the middle of a very adult problem.
11 Years Later..
It's back.
I've grown up since then and I've definately learned some things since then.
And I still staunchly agree with the Williamsville Policy.
Personally, I have a very Grinch-like attitude toward Christmas. I suspect it's because I'm an outside. I've never celebrated Christmas. It's meant nothing to me. All I see is that for one month a year, everyone gets "Holiday Spirit"( they try to be nice to one another. Something they apparently can not do the other 11 months.), and the popular media is awash with a butt ton of Christmas Songs, Christmas movies and Christmas TV Specials.
I see the truth behind the facade. People who will be nice on the phone go into a store and start cussing out the poor guy at the counter because they are too stupid to read the sale sign correctly or because the manufacturers cause a drought of Tickle-Me-Elmos until the week before Christmas so it seems like they're always sold out.
Moreover, I see an important religious holiday converted into a capitalist's wet dreams: presents and cards and candy and gaudy lawn displays.
More than all that, though, what I see is an otherwise secular nation suddenly converted into Christmas Mode. And it disturbs me.
I wonder how many people have ever thought about what it says about our culture that for over a month, America lives and breathes Christmas, despite the fact.. and I want to make this perfectly clear, America is NOT a Christian nation and Christmas is NOT a national holiday.
I think this is the important point right there. America is NOT a Christian Nation. I'm not sure how many Americans do actually celebrate Christmas, but I strongly suspect it's a great deal less than one might guess due to the complete tidal wave of Christmas songs, movies, television specials etc.
So, let's get back to our original topic of discourse: religious songs in public theatre.
And I say no. No that's not right.
I'm not saying No to Frosty or Rudolph or We Wish You a Merry Christmas. I'm saying that Jesus should be left at home.. or at church, but not at school.
This is the part people don't get: They're upset because we want to close one forum. Yes, I do agree that school is an important place for your child, but you have no more right to demand that they sing "o Holy Night" than I do that they go up on stage and sacrifice kool aid and graham crackers to the Lord and Lady and wish the Lord a happy death.
That's the heart of it right there. Just because there are more of you doesn't mean it's right. Just because the nation goes Christmas-crazy doesn't mean it's right either.
Keep Jesus out of the Christmas Play.
Thank you.
I am keeping comment enabled. Feel free to argue.
Well, no, it never really went away, but it's back in the limelight again.
I definately have a position about this, and I'll get to that, but first a little bit of personal history.
My senior year of high school, my school district, Williamsville School District did the unthinkable: they banned overtly religious songs and displays from their schools. This was unheard of, unthinable! Well, not really, but as a Senior, that's a great deal of what I heard.
The problem was this.. and this is true, I suspect, of all these suburban school districts that this argument is happening in.. as far as anyone could see, the district was predominantly christian (false - it turns out the neighborhood had a really pretty good mix of christians (all denominations), jews, muslims and.. other (I had no understanding of the other, but trust me, they were there.)
The issue at stake wasn't about songs like Frosty the Snowman, but about "Silent Night" and "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen". There was a growing majority of the district population who did not feel that these overtly religious songs belonged in a public school setting.
A referendum occured (at the time, I did not want to go, my mom dragged me. But 11 years later, I'm glad I was there.). I remember it fairly clearly, actually. My mom, Marc and I went to North. As we stepped in, we passed a bunch of Born Agains singing Christmas Carols.. and one loonie old woman going on and on about how the jews were trying to take away their heritage. We went inside the auditorium and all concerned citizens were allowed to speak their minds. There was a little of both: both people who felt that these songs were harmless, part of American heritage and should be left alone.. and those who felt it was specifically not.
Anyways, a vote passed and overtly christian songs were banned. Gone.
Instantly, the entire school district was a mockery. We were the PC school district.
An interesting note.. at the time all of this was going on, yours truly was collecting CDs from a local radio station: 97 Rock. By and large, the CDs were bad (I loved them anyways) parodies of rock songs about.. The Buffalo Bills. (Yellow Submarine turned into the Yellow Steelers Team and, my favorite right now, Dude Looks Like a Lady turned into Drew (yes, Bledsoe) throws like a lady.) Anyways, the year this happened (and a whole slew of other big item tickets in Buffalo THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SNOW) happened, 97 Rock turned out a CD about Buffalo. I still have and enjoy this CD. (Especially songs like "Erie County Fair" and "Peace Bridge" and "Cheektowaga Polka" (I'll hook you two up,
blackfelicula and ecwoodburn. You would appreciate!) And, of course.. the Williamsville School District's CHristmas Carols.. like We Wish You a Memorable Seasonal Tidings.At the time, I was both angry that we kids had been put into the middle of a very adult problem.
11 Years Later..
It's back.
I've grown up since then and I've definately learned some things since then.
And I still staunchly agree with the Williamsville Policy.
Personally, I have a very Grinch-like attitude toward Christmas. I suspect it's because I'm an outside. I've never celebrated Christmas. It's meant nothing to me. All I see is that for one month a year, everyone gets "Holiday Spirit"( they try to be nice to one another. Something they apparently can not do the other 11 months.), and the popular media is awash with a butt ton of Christmas Songs, Christmas movies and Christmas TV Specials.
I see the truth behind the facade. People who will be nice on the phone go into a store and start cussing out the poor guy at the counter because they are too stupid to read the sale sign correctly or because the manufacturers cause a drought of Tickle-Me-Elmos until the week before Christmas so it seems like they're always sold out.
Moreover, I see an important religious holiday converted into a capitalist's wet dreams: presents and cards and candy and gaudy lawn displays.
More than all that, though, what I see is an otherwise secular nation suddenly converted into Christmas Mode. And it disturbs me.
I wonder how many people have ever thought about what it says about our culture that for over a month, America lives and breathes Christmas, despite the fact.. and I want to make this perfectly clear, America is NOT a Christian nation and Christmas is NOT a national holiday.
I think this is the important point right there. America is NOT a Christian Nation. I'm not sure how many Americans do actually celebrate Christmas, but I strongly suspect it's a great deal less than one might guess due to the complete tidal wave of Christmas songs, movies, television specials etc.
So, let's get back to our original topic of discourse: religious songs in public theatre.
And I say no. No that's not right.
I'm not saying No to Frosty or Rudolph or We Wish You a Merry Christmas. I'm saying that Jesus should be left at home.. or at church, but not at school.
This is the part people don't get: They're upset because we want to close one forum. Yes, I do agree that school is an important place for your child, but you have no more right to demand that they sing "o Holy Night" than I do that they go up on stage and sacrifice kool aid and graham crackers to the Lord and Lady and wish the Lord a happy death.
That's the heart of it right there. Just because there are more of you doesn't mean it's right. Just because the nation goes Christmas-crazy doesn't mean it's right either.
Keep Jesus out of the Christmas Play.
Thank you.
I am keeping comment enabled. Feel free to argue.
This is academic, not personal s:)
Date: 2004-12-21 11:32 am (UTC)However, I also recall that for years, my mom would, for lack of a better word, snicker at Mrs. Hoch/our district. Why? The songs we sang in elementary school at the "Winter concert" were Jingle Bells, Frosty the Snowman...and the Dreidle (sp) song. I seem to also remember singing "Hanukah, Hanukah, let the fun begin!" And then whatever generic original stuff she wrote for us.
Yes, this was about 10 years before that town meeting, but my point is this: if you're going to be inclusive of a rather minor Jewish holiday, for years and years, what is the harm of a few explicitly Christian songs to balance it? Why is it wrong for the Jewish, Hindu, Muslim kids to sing Christmas carols, but it's OK for everyone to sing "I have a little dreidle, I made it out of clay"?
Honestly, ideally, perhaps idealistically, I'd like to see a balance -- not an all-or-none, toss out the baby with the bathwater (no pun intended) mentality. Do a few generic songs, fine, but if you're going to let/make them sing about dreidles, why not "Silent Night," too? (And why not "Deck the Halls" for a little pagan subversion, too? *eg*)
(IIRC, too, it was either JUST North, or JUST the high schools that decided this. Which is also dumb -- making a big fuss out of it with the students who might actually be able to comprehend the idea of cultural diversity, while letting the younger kids do whatever the teacher's whimsy allows. Right.)
Re: This is academic, not personal s:)
Date: 2004-12-21 12:09 pm (UTC)A fairer comparison would probably be making elementary school kids sing the Hannukah Blessing and then sing "Merry Gentlemen".
The harm comes in the content. There are a whole HOST of non-religious songs: Jingle Bells, Jingle Bell Rock, Sleigh Ride, even Deck the Halls. Not one of these professes love to the one true god who is also son of god.
Explain to me, specifically, why five year olds need to be singing the praise of Jesus instead of all these other good songs?
I'm not saying no to all Christmas songs. I'm not saying no to a Christmas concert. What I'm saying is that Jesus does not belong in school. Period.
And, no, it was not just North and it was not just the High Schoolers. If you want, go ask your mom... or better yet, go ask mine. Both Marc and Josh were in band and chorus at that point in time, and none of them played/sang anything overtly religious.
This argument goes beyond what ten year olds are thinking while singing "O Holy Night" in concert.
Part of this fight is going on.. is it Jersey? About the ten year old who brought in candy canes with religious text attached and told he was not allowed to give them out.
If I was one of his classmates, I'd probably have tossed the text out and just eaten the candy canes. I imagine most ten year olds would agree with me.
What this argument is about is parents and teachers and school boards duking it out over how seperate should State and Church be. Period.
As an adult, as a hopeful parent, I feel Jesus does not belong in school.